#talkaboutit Rough Sex, Boundary Pushing, Expectations
This has been retweeted in #talkaboutit for a bit, it's Louis C.K. doing standup. Transcript and thoughts below the cut.
I remember one night, I was with a girl, I was 20 years old, I was already doing standup, and I did a show in Washington D.C. After the show one of the waitresses came back to my hotel room - she was really cute, and we were making out, in my hotel, and she's into it, she's humping me.
So I started to put my hand up her skirt, and she stops me. I'm like, uu, okay, so we're making out more, and I start putting my hand up her ass, and she stops me. So after a while, she went home, nothing happened.
And then the next night, I saw her at the club, and she goes, uh, hey, what happened last night?
I was like, *raises eyebrows, shrugs* what?
She goes, how come we didn't have sex?
I was like, 'cuz you didn't want to.
She's like, yes I did, I was totally into it.
I was like, w-why did you keep stopping me?
'Cos I wanted you to just go for it.
I was like, what does that mean?
She says, I'm kinda weird, I get turned on when a guy gets frustrated and just holds me down and fucks me. Like, that's a big turn-on for me.
I was like, well, you should've told me! I would have happily done that for you.
And she says, no, it has to feel real and dangerous.
Like, what are you, out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just gonna rape you, on the off-chance that, hopefully you're into that shit? *pauses, audience applauds* What kind of an idiot -- ooh, I'm kinda getting a rape-y vibe from this girl. I suspect she might enjoy being raped, maybe that's her thing. I don't want to ask 'cos that would ruin it, so, just take a shot and rape her, what the hell. What's the worst thing that could happen after all?
I laughed when he gets to his punchline of "you think I'm going to rape you on the off-chance you're into that shit?" Partly because, that should be the way to respond. It reminds me of this thread, on the guys who don't rape, despite being in circumstances where it could have been so easy. I have mixed feelings about this phenomenon, there're a ton of things happening in this video, let me break it down:
1) When women protest against rape, a lot of people say, "but women like it rough anyway. They like it when men plow ahead without asking for permission because asking for permission is pussification."
2) When both men and women protest one side or the other, there's always a smackback: "but 90% of the time men are assholes and will take advantage of the situation" (I actually got this last winter I was home) OR "but not all men are like that!"
3) Women People who DO enjoy rough sex and boundary-pushing coming away dissatisfied because they didn't get that from their partner, operating under the expectation that partners WILL push boundaries without being asked (like that's a good thing), because of stuff that goes on in #2 -- the assumption that "real men are assertive" and "women have to be passive", or maybe it's not an assumption of gender expectations, but certainly an assumption of what your partner is supposed to be like.
I find it difficult to parse how to explain
1) Consent is necessary;
2) Stop generalizing about 90% of men because you're not that fucking special;
3) There ARE venues to pick up men who will boundary-push but taking it for granted that it WILL happen is not so hot for other women.
I can see all sorts of unpleasantness from the spread of this vid, like "see, hur hur, women like it rough" and "stupid bitchez are lyin' when they say they don't like it rough" and "not ALL guys are like that! PROOF! so your mistrust of men is completely unfounded!"
Nonetheless, it's still an interesting video to unpack. Thoughts?